ascending-descending cicle from equator

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miquel
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Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 19:08

ascending-descending cicle from equator

Post by miquel »

Good evening all,

I have a question regarding the ascending-descending moon cicle and I wonder if anyone could help me. As far as I understand, when the period of ascending moon starts in the northern hemisphere, this is descending period in the southern hemisphere, and viceversa. What happens if you are situated exactly in the Earth equator, when would it be your ascending and descending periods? would it have the same effect for planting as if you are situated somewhere else in the northern or southern hemisphere?

I hope this makes sense, I am thinking about applying some of theses principles in an organic project in Nanyuki, Kenya, which is right in the terrestial equator.

I hope someone can answer my question.

Many thanks,

Miquel

Mark
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Re: ascending-descending cicle from equator

Post by Mark »

Brian Keats made this suggestion:

"I would suggest that the latter half of the moon's movement going north of the equator would be the descending period as well as the latter half of the moon's journey south of the equator."

Skalman
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Joined: 12 May 2008, 21:05
Location: Sweden

Re: ascending-descending cicle from equator

Post by Skalman »

I assume Brian Keat's suggestion is based on the changes in how high the Moon raises in the sky each day. At the equator there will be two peaks per cycle rather than one.

What about close to the equator then? I tried to think about this. The Earth's orbit is tilted 5 deg from the ecliptic, but in what direction? Is it tilted directly towards the Earth's axis or directly away from it or something in between (if you see what I mean)? Or is it not constantly oriented with respect to the Earth's axis? I tried to google this, but found no good enough resource. (E.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_of_the_Moon does not give any answer as far as I can see.) But I think it is at least part of the time tilted towards the Earth axis, because the Moon can stand higher in the sky than the Sun, at 60 deg Northern latitude. Anyway if I assume that it is always tilted directly towards the Earth's axis, then a little thinking and drawing gives me the preliminary result that locations further south than 5 deg lat can betreated as southern hemisphere, and locations further north than 5 deg lat can be treated as northern hemi, but for locations between 5 deg south and 5 deg north, but not exactly at the equator, the rule for the planting times will be something between Brian Keat's equator rule and the ordinary northern or southern hemisphere rules. (I am not sure of this, it is preliminary!)

More importantly, I doubt that there will be any noticeable effect at all near or at the equator, because the highest elevation of the moon during the moon day will vary so little during a moon cycle. At the equator it will vary between zero and five degrees from zenith, if I am not mistaken.

Skalman
Posts: 15
Joined: 12 May 2008, 21:05
Location: Sweden

Re: ascending-descending cicle from equator

Post by Skalman »

Useful information found at Considera:

http://www.considera.org/pbtsplanttime.html

"During this cycle the moon is sometimes higher in the sky and other times lower. This cycle of ascending (currently through the constellations of Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces, Aries and Taurus) and descending (Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra and Scorpio) mimics the sun's own low winter position and higher summer passage from horizon to horizon."

I assume this is sideral, so the end of Taurus is near midsummer. Hence the Moons orbit has its highest point in about the same horisontal direction as the Sun, and the same for the lowest points. And I understand this doesn't vary too much in the short timeframe, like years or decades. (A century will change the direction by 30*100/2160 deg = 1.4 deg, by the precession of the equinoxes.) Combined with my observation that the Moon raises higher than the Sun at its highest, I conclude that the Moon's orbital plane is tilted more towards the Earth's axis, or in other words further away from the celestial equator, than the ecliptic. It's inclination with the ecliptic will be approx 23+5=28 deg.

This supports my assumptions in my previous post, which doesn't necessarily mean that I am right, especially not on all details.

Skalman
Posts: 15
Joined: 12 May 2008, 21:05
Location: Sweden

Re: ascending-descending cicle from equator

Post by Skalman »

I have some corrections to make, that might make my message in this thread even more difficult to follow. Therefore I asked the moderator to remove my two posts of the 11 and 12 Nov, so I can enter a better and more coherent post. As he hasn't done so, I have no better option than to post some corrections in one or a few new posts.

Here I comment upon my post of the 11 Nov:
Skalman wrote:I assume Brian Keat's suggestion is based on the changes in how high the Moon raises in the sky each day. At the equator there will be two peaks per cycle rather than one.

What about close to the equator then? I tried to think about this. The Earth's orbit


Correction: I mean the Moon's orbit
is tilted 5 deg from the ecliptic, but in what direction? Is it tilted directly towards the Earth's axis or directly away from it or something in between (if you see what I mean)? Or is it not constantly oriented with respect to the Earth's axis? I tried to google this, but found no good enough resource. (E.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_of_the_Moon does not give any answer as far as I can see.) But I think it is at least part of the time tilted towards the Earth axis, because the Moon can stand higher in the sky than the Sun, at 60 deg Northern latitude. Anyway if I assume that it is always tilted directly towards the Earth's axis,
I have now found better information, both at Wikipedia and in other places.
If you try to follow this, it can be helpful to view this drawing (where "Earth Orbit"=the ecliptic)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Earth-Moon.PNG
(I can post more links if there is interest. )

Conckusion is that the Moon's orbit rotates around Earth (with respect/reference to fixed stars) with a rotational period of 18.6 years. Hence the tilt of Moon's orbit in relation to the ecliptic will also vary, from abt plus 5 deg to minus 5 deg.

BUT the ascension-descension of the Moon is relative to the celestial equator (which is an extension of the Earth's equatorial plane) and not relative to the ecliptic, as I thought when I wrote two posts on the 11 and 12 Nov. As the celestial equator is quite heavily tilted relative to the ecliptic (23 deg) the net tilting of the Moon's orbit reltive to the celestial equator will always be in the same direction, giving an ascension through Sagittarius to Taurus, with a slope varying between 18 and 28 deg.

The consequences of this I have to ponder some more. Meanwhile I suggest that you take the following conclusions as of 11 Nov with a handful of salt.
then a little thinking and drawing gives me the preliminary result that locations further south than 5 deg lat can betreated as southern hemisphere, and locations further north than 5 deg lat can be treated as northern hemi, but for locations between 5 deg south and 5 deg north, but not exactly at the equator, the rule for the planting times will be something between Brian Keat's equator rule and the ordinary northern or southern hemisphere rules. (I am not sure of this, it is preliminary!)

More importantly, I doubt that there will be any noticeable effect at all near or at the equator, because the highest elevation of the moon during the moon day will vary so little during a moon cycle. At the equator it will vary between zero and five degrees from zenith, if I am not mistaken.

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